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“If you just show up, lead yourself to Jesus, surrender your daughter, and do the best that you can, that is all the Lord asks of us.”

Today’s guest is Stacey Thacker. We had Stacey on the show last year and she’s back to share some updates with us. Stacey’s a wife and the mother of four girls. The author of six books, she is also a Bible teacher and loves to connect with women and encourage them in their walks with God. You can find her blogging at staceythacker.com and hanging out on Instagram (@staceythacker), usually with a cup of coffee in her hand.

Last time Stacey and I saw each other was the first time we had ever actually met in person. I was in Dallas speaking for Dare to Dream and she happened to be there speaking at First Euless Church and I got to attend. It was also the last time we both got to see our dear friend, Wynter, in person. I just cherish that night so deeply.

Stacey’s been through a lot in the last couple of years. Her husband, Mike, experienced an extreme medical emergency early last year, and we talked about how God showed up as Stacey did her best to navigate herself and her daughters through so many unknowns. Her personal and professional responsibilities shifted a lot over the last several months, and she released the second resource in the Girlfriends’ Guide to the Bible study last month, “When Grace Walks In,” which focuses on the book of Ephesians.

Stacey expertly teaches through Paul’s letter so that women can better understand the story of God’s rescue of His people, but also how the gospel should affect our lives and inform our decisions.

Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you react to it.”

Today’s guest is Yewande O’Neal, a passionate advocate for people to discover who they were created to be. Yewande loves to see people walk in their God given purpose and do it with excellence. She lives to seek God’s kingdom first, and doing so has transformed her life in many ways, which you’ll hear about today.

Yewande started her career in the corporate world with the General Electric Company. She earned numerous awards and certifications in her 12 years with GE. She climbed the leadership ladder and became Executive General Manager, leading over 200 employees all over the world.

After working in the corporate world for several years, Yewande felt God tug her heart and she founded Women of Kairos in 2015 – Non-profit organization focused on helping women move into and in their purpose. I’m honored to be speaking at this year’s Women of Kairos conference on October 13^th in Atlanta.

“For the sake of your kids, your future kids, you have to stop.”

Today’s guest is Sarah Bragg. Sarah lives in Georgia with her husband Scott and their two beautiful girls, Sinclair and Rory. She worked in full-time ministry for more than 8 years and then alongside those who are in the ministry trenches for more than 10 years with Orange. She’s a graduate from Dallas Theological Seminary and author of the book, Body. Beauty. Boys. The Truth About Girls and How We See Ourselves.

She is currently Orange’s content director for the Live a Better Story small group curriculum. You can also find her on iTunes hosting one of my favorite podcasts — Surviving Sarah — where she has great conversations with different people in order to help women enjoy and survive where they are in life.

During today’s episode, Sarah and I catch up about what’s going on over at the Bragg house for back to school, what the transitions to the 3^rd and 5^th grades has been like for her girls, and the simple motto she used to send her kids off to school this year: “Be brave. Be kind.”

Sarah unpacks her earlier challenges with identity and body image and reveals how the Lord walked alongside her through periods of struggle. She also shares how her writing and professional work impacts her approach to parenting her girls.

There is a ton of wisdom in this week’s interview. Don’t miss it!

“Faith is a muscle, and it needs exercise.”

My guest today is Lauren Green McAfee. Lauren is a third generation member of the Green Family- founders of Hobby Lobby and the Museum of the Bible. While pursuing her graduate degrees in pastoral counseling and theology, Lauren worked at Museum of the Bible from its founding days, until its opening in Washington DC late last year. Today, she works at Hobby Lobby as Corporate Ambassador and is also pursuing her PHD in Ethics and Public Policy. She lives in Oklahoma City with her husband, Michael.

Lauren has spent considerable time studying the topic of legacy and the idea that each of us can play a unique and irreplaceable role in God’s story. In today’s episode, she talks about why she feels it’s important to address legacy today, particularly as it relates to women.

She challenges women to live with their legacy in mind in a book she wrote in partnership with her mom, Jackie. Only One Life: How a Woman’s Every Day Shapes an Eternal Legacy tells the stories of world-changing women, both past and present. She learned a lot after examining the lives of these women, and you will be blessed to hear what she found out.

I hope today’s interview inspires you to leave a lasting legacy for Jesus, no matter where life takes you.

You only have one, so make it count.

“Be unoffendable. In the words of Taylor Swift, shake it off.” 

Today’s guest is Christine Caine. Christine is someone I admire and respect so much in the arenas of leadership, influence and encouraging women. She is an Australian-born, Greek-blooded lover of Jesus, activist, author and international speaker. Her primary passion is to make Jesus’ last command her first priority by giving her all to see the lost saved and to build the local church – globally. She has a passion for justice, and together with her husband, Nick, founded the anti-human trafficking organization, The A21 Campaign. In 2015, they founded Propel Women, an organization designed to honor the calling of every woman, empower her to lead, equip her for success, and develop a sense of God-given purpose. She’s known around the world as a passionate communicator of God’s word and his love.

Much of the work Christine does through A21 and Propel Women revolves around empowering women. In today’s episode, you’ll find out why she is so committed to those causes and how much it means to her that A21 just received the Mother Teresa Memorial Award for Social Justice “for providing the three essentials – food, water and clothing to refugees and for raising awareness against human trafficking.”

Christine and I have thyroid cancer in common. I was diagnosed first in 2007 and I know from experience how shocking, scary, and unexpected that kind of news can be. Christine’s diagnosis came in 2014 and she explains what it was like for her and what God showed her during that season. Her newest book, Unexpected, addresses fear of all kinds and how it can get in the way of us fulfilling our God-given destinies.

TRANSCRIPT

My name is Erin Weidemann and you are listening to Heroes For Her. This series features candid conversations with real women who strive to balance their professional acumen with their personal values. Join me as I interview positive female role models who are working hard, loving others and inspiring the next generation of girls to serve their unique purpose.

Hi everybody, and welcome to today’s episode of Heroes For Her. My guest today is someone I admire and respect so much in the arenas of leadership, influence and encouraging women. She’s an Australian born, Greek blooded lover of Jesus, an activist, author and international speaker.

Her primary passion, I love this, is to make Jesus last command her first priority and by giving her all to see the lost saved and to build the local church globally. She has a passion for justice and, together with her husband Nick, founded the anti human trafficking organization, The A21 Campaign, which recently received the Mother Teresa Memorial Award for social justice.

In 2015 they founded Propel Women, an organization designed to honor the calling of every woman, empower her to lead, equip her for success and develop a sense of her God-given purpose. She is known around the world as a passionate communicator of God’s Word and His love.

It is my extreme pleasure to welcome Christine Caine to Heroes For Her.

Erin: Christine, thanks so much for being here.

Christine: Erin, it’s my honor, I’m so pumped to be on this.

Erin: Oh, well we’re excited to have you. So I feel like we are about to go on a rollercoaster ride, because there are a few fun topics I want to discuss and a couple serious ones. So does that sound good?

Christine: Sure.

Erin: Okay awesome.

Christine: A hundred percent, yes.

Erin: I love that we get to celebrate this with you, the incredible work that The A21 Campaign is doing and you recently receiving, early or late last year, the Mother Teresa Memorial Award for Social Justice. This is so powerful, just simply stepping out and providing the three essentials: food, water and clothing to refugees and for raising important awareness against human trafficking.

Can you tell everybody about the work that’s being done through A21 and what it means to you to receive this award.

Christine: Sure. Well it was a great honor, I’ve got to tell you that much. It was kind of surreal being in Mumbai and having Gandhi’s great-grandson give us this award.

I’m kind of thinking “I’m watching a movie!” And it was bizarre. But a lot of why we got that award was we provided water containers for refugees because eighty-five percent of all the Syrian refugees that were crossing into Europe were coming one hour away from our headquarters in Greece, so it was on our doorstep.

What we did in the refugee camps is help to identify potential victims of trafficking, because those that are the most vulnerable to being trafficked are the ones nobody’s looking for. And nobody’s looking for refugees because they don’t know that they’re missing.

So the fact was that we helped one hundred Yazidi girls who had watched their fathers be murdered in front of their eyes and many of them had been raped themselves.

We helped identify those that were being trafficked into Europe and then we rebuilt a village for them in northern Iraq with housing and whatever parts of their families were left. So, it was quite huge.

But you know, our whole work with A21, we have fifteen officers in thirteen countries around the world, and you know, just last week we finally prosecuted a big case in Thailand with a very very high public official and police officers. One of them we put away for you know a hundred and twenty seven years, one for two hundred and twenty years, and one for three hundred years because they were trafficking four to twelve year olds in a whole northern region of Thailand, which is almost incomprehensible.

And you know, we’re seeing people rescued every day. We’ve got offices on every continent because the fastest-growing crime worldwide is the trafficking of human beings for sex and for labor; so it’s horrific.

Erin: I think, you know, and I’ve watched you give many talks over the last several years about why your heart stirred for this issue, but I think what you’ve at least brought to my attention and what I want to hone in on for listeners here is that we all think that Emancipation ended slavery and slavery is alive and well in this day and age.

So, I mean, your heart stirred for this, why did you feel emboldened to get involved in such a large-scale way? I mean, a lot of the times we’re looking at our day-to-day going, okay how do I get involved? Like what small-scale business can I do to make a dent in this problem?

But here you are, you know, you start this campaign and it’s really grown and expanded, it’s been interesting to see what God’s done. So I’m wondering, how did you go from, okay, my spirit is stirred for this issue, to I’m going to step out and do something in a big way, in a way that’s actually going to create the change that we’re looking for?

Christine: Absolutely. Well let me just say when I started I wasn’t thinking big, I was just thinking what’s the next thing I can do? It’s like all of us, you know, God lays something on your heart. And at first I was overwhelmed like most of us would be. And my big questions were, “But God, what could I ever do?” You know, I don’t even know where to begin with this.

I mean, this is Russian and Albanian mafia, they kill people, you know. This

requires money that I don’t have, resources that I don’t have, people that I don’t have, knowledge that I don’t have…

I mean, I when I started I felt like Moses in the back of the desert when the Lord said, I want to use you to set my people free. And Moses is like, “But God….”

And I felt it wasn’t like a Bible story for me anymore, but God, are you serious? I just had given birth to my second daughter, I’m like you know I’m forty years old.

So. like everybody, you get stirred and then I thought, well I can’t do everything. And mostly, especially us women, we don’t do anything because we think we can’t do everything, rather than doing one thing that is actually going to activate something.

And so I knew the one thing I could do was I had a mouth, God was using me already to speak at conferences around the world. I in no way could have imagined what we’re doing today, but I knew that I could talk about this.

And I thought, well if I’ve seen this and I’m a mother and I have two daughters and this has broken my heart, then I know that this will break a lot of people’s hearts . I probably really did think in the beginning, I would like be a spokesperson and I was looking for an organization that I could be a spokesperson for. Because I thought, well, I speak and I write books so I can.

And so, as I began to look for organizations, I couldn’t find one that kind of had a lot of the values that were very important to me; which is, I am a local church girl, it had to be local church, I wasn’t really thinking of being Wonder Woman or Rambo, I was just thinking there’s a lot of moms out there that are pretty much overwhelmed with just making life work in their normal life. How can I help plug that normal person into doing just the next right thing without feeling like I’ve got to pack up everything, sell my children and move to Africa and help. You know, how are we going to make this normal?

So because I really couldn’t find that, out of necessity, I started what I couldn’t find and then God breathed on it and I’m like look, I’m just like the rest of you to be honest.

When I was standing on that stage in Mumbai, I like, I’m not joking, I thought I was in a movie. I’m like, “This is not real.” Like, when God said I’m able to do exceedingly abundantly above and beyond anything you could ever ask, hope or think, I’m thinking, “I’m living that! This is real.”

But what A21 really is, to be honest, most of my partners, we have thousands of partners that contribute thirty dollars a month, and they’re the ones that are the rescues I’m talking about. Every day we see someone rescued, traffickers being put in jail. It’s those normal everyday people that are just trying to navigate life that go, “You know what? I’m gonna sacrifice three cups of coffee a week and that’s gonna make a difference for somebody.” That’s actually who the heroes of A21 are. It’s those people that go, “I can’t do everything but I can do one thing and I’m gonna do one thing”.

And I think if we could mobilize more women to believe that their one small thing is actually going to make a difference; the little boy’s lunch, a little lunch, five loaves two fishes. He could have held that back, that little boy, because he could have thought, “That’s not gonna feed fifteen thousand people.”

But he gave the little and I have found it’s not just a nice cute sermon, it’s actually truth; after ten years, it’s those little bits that have contributed to this big thing where we go, “Oh, my word! A21, fifteen offices, thirteen countries! Hero of human trafficking Awards, UN Awards” you know.

And I go yeah, but at the end of the day it’s just everyday people making a little bit of a difference that together makes a very very big difference.

Erin: That’s so good and to watch what God has done to grow and multiply it through just these little simple acts and consistency and having people step in and get involved.

Much of the work that you’re doing, not just with A21, but with Propel Women, it revolves around activating and empowering women specifically. Why do you feel like God has you in that, viewing the world through that lens and helping women understand their part, their role in tackling some of the world’s issues. Why do you feel like God has you doing that, like as an overarching goal and purpose for your own life?

Christine: Yeah. Well I think first and foremost I am one, that’s like, I am a woman so of course I’m going to view my life out of the lens of being a woman. And I think throughout history, you know Jesus has always used women; in Luke 8 verse 3 when the Bible says that women travelled with Jesus and funded his ministry out of their own means.

Jesus’ first word when he was resurrected he said, “Woman” and then, “Why are you weeping?” You know. “Woman.” That was his first word. And I think the scripture, Old Testament and New, has always dignified women, has always valued women.

Society hasn’t and I think right now we can see in our world there is just a real rising up where women have felt like you know, they’re being used and being abused. I certainly come from a background you know, I was left in a hospital unnamed and unwanted when I was born, I experienced sexual abuse for twelve years.

So, I was very broken and Jesus redeemed me, Jesus healed me. And so not only did Jesus rescue me, but redemption is that He now uses me to rescue others.

And I think that something we have to realize as women of God is it is so important we understand who we are in Christ, because as we step up and into the purpose that God has for us, there are other people on the other side of our obedience, there are other people waiting to be set free.

So, if I didn’t get free, there’s one thing about being angry and venting on social media and being so angry about what happened to me; there’s another thing about being healed and Jesus heals us, He does. He understands our frustrations, He understands our wounds, He understands our hurt, but He loves us too much to leave us in that pit of anger and despair.

He lifts us out of that pit, heals our life and then gives us a life beyond our past. And I feel that God has given me a voice in this hour, through the work of A21 and through the work of Propel, because I’m not speaking up out of anger and resentment and bitterness and unforgiveness, but hopefully out of wholeness and healing and to say the same Jesus that set me free he could set you free and He could give you a life beyond your past.

And freedom, of course, was important to Jesus; the Bible says it’s for freedom in Galatians 5:1, it’s for freedom that Christ set us free. So, freedom is very important, it’s not just a by-product. You know, the scripture says in John 8 if you abide in my word then you will know the truth and the truth will set you free.

So it’s not enough just to know the truth, you’ve got to be set free by it. And I think we have a world that is in a lot of pain, a lot of turmoil. Women have been misrepresented, women as we’re seeing in every sector of society, have been hurt and marginalized and abused and there is nothing like the gospel of Jesus Christ that brings freedom to people.

And in a time on the earth where there’s a lot of anger, where there’s a lot of confusion about gender identity, Jesus, God did not create us genderless, He created us in His image, male and female Genesis 1:27 says.

So I think it’s important for us to have the conversation, what is it to be a woman? And what is it to be a free woman? And what is it to be a woman that empowers and loves other women?

There’s a lot of anger out there, there’s a lot of women going, “Well I want my

rights and I want my corner office.” And you know that’s not really going to get us very far, we need the freedom that is ours in Christ, one that is birthed in love and grace and mercy. And I don’t think anybody in history has dignified women like Jesus Christ has and so I think it’s an important message that we have for our generation.

Erin: Well, I love the way that you’re not afraid to just draw the lines and to reference the lines that are clearly drawn in God’s Word.

I want to switch gears though and talk about fear, because you know, we talk about freedom and the freedom in Jesus and that we are redeemed and we’ve been rescued, so we’re called to rescue.

But there’s this real, this very real element of fear standing in the way of women to step into their calling, to access the freedom that Jesus provides and then to go bless others with it.

So I want to talk about the new book, it’s called Unexpected and why you believe people and women specifically, experience so much fear regarding the things that we don’t expect and surprising scary situations that come up.

Like, why is fear running rampant in those situations for women, do you think?

Christine: Yeah, well I think, first and foremost, fear is running rampant, it’s always been a plot of the enemy and I think that’s why in second Timothy, Paul reminds us God has not given us a spirit of fear.

Because you know, whatever your Christian tradition is there is a spirit behind fear. I mean, that’s why the scripture says God hasn’t given us a spirit of fear and the way you counteract that is with love power and a sound mind.

But fear cripples us and fear paralyzes us and I think what the enemy is after always is our faith, because without faith it’s impossible to please God and without faith you can’t activate the promises of God, faith is the currency of heaven.

So the enemy has always been after our faith and that’s why, you know, scripture says that we’ve got to fight the good fight of faith. So, the fear makes you not operate in faith because you just shut down, fear makes you pull back, fear makes you go, “I’m not good enough.” Fear actually tells you, “I’m not enough, I cannot do this, I’m not smart enough, I’m not talented enough. What if?”

And that’s the big thing of fear. What if I do this? And of course, when I started A21, what about my children? What about my marriage? What about our finances? What about? What about? What if? What if? What if?

And so I think at some point you’ve got to make a decision where you make what you do know about God bigger than what you do not know about the future. So, I think a lot of us feel…we’ve got this false sense that we are controlling the future anyway. So we just think, man, if I step out here you know what’s gonna happen?

Like you were a full time teacher and then you stepped out to serve God in this way, well then you begin to think, “Oh my gosh! Okay, what if? What about our mortgage?” What about this? What about that? What about? All your what-ifs.

And so then at some point you’re going to have to make what you do know about God more important than what you don’t know about the future. And that’s for everyone. It’s not that I came with a special dose of courage, we all are the same people and I’ve got to decide that all the time, every time.

You know, two weeks ago we opened a new A21 office in Spain. Well, you know it takes as much faith for me to open a new office now, office number fifteen, as it did office number one.

Because people go, well you know Christine it’s okay for you. I’m like, “The stakes are a lot higher now, the income is a lot higher now, the way I have to trust God is a lot higher now.” So every new office requires as much faith as the first office. And so I think you never ever stop having to fight fear.

But you know I’ve learned that if I wait until I stop feeling fear to do what God’s called me to do I will never move. Because I’ve always got these, for lack of a better phrase, you know these butterflies in my stomach going “Oh Lord, I really hope this works.”

You know, there’s always that feeling before you jump where you go, “Man, I thought it would be easier to jump out of an airplane with a parachute on.” But it never is, it’s just kind of like, “I hope the parachute’s gonna go up.” You know there is just as much chance this time that the parachutes are not going to work as the first time.

And so I think at some point you’re going to go, “Well I’m gonna just jump and pull the cord and I’m praying to God that that parachute actually works.” And I’ve just learned to jump feeling the fear anyway nowadays.

Erin: So I mean, you and I share many things in common, but one of them is thyroid cancer which I found out pretty recently. So I was diagnosed in 2007, know battled it for a few years, and you were diagnosed just a few years ago too.

I know from experience how shocking and scary and unexpected news can come and hit you and just, I mean, pour over you in a way that does feel hopeless.

And for me I wasn’t walking with the Lord, I’m wondering if you could, to encourage people right now, what was it like for you to receive that news? And what did God reveal to you, what did He show you about Himself in that season of life where you yourself experienced something that was unexpected. It was scary, you know it was the fear of change, the fear of the unknown, it was affecting, the tool that you use to amplify the Lord’s message. What was God teaching you about Him in that season of trial?

Christine: Yeah, I think it’s major you know. In Chapter one I talk about this in Unexpected because, what do you do when you get those words, “Chris, you have cancer”? I mean nobody’s waiting to hear that; you know exactly what that feels like.

I think the Lord did this in that moment and I instantly knew that my fight was not against cancer, it was against fear because fear would have made me just kind of melt. I’d have a meltdown, you know, and so I wouldn’t be able to stand on the promises of God or even have the faith to go through the treatment and the surgery with a sense of faith. Because I still had two daughters, I still do you know, I still have a husband, we’re still running a ministry, it’s not that life stops. It’s not like you get a cancer diagnosis and everything else stops…

Erin: No, everything continues on, yes.

Christine: Everything continues and you know, I’ve got two hundred staff around the world, I’m running all of that. You go, okay well you know I just got this devastating news but it didn’t stop everything else.

So you need faith to just keep going through every day and so if you’re in fear, you meltdown and you actually stop operating in faith. So, really what I had to do was it really brought me to the foot of the cross yet again. I mean we’re all very aware; I live every day as if it’s my last anyway. So, really, again you begin to think okay I know theologically, cognitively that life is but a vapour, that I could be here today gone tomorrow and I know that actually you know every day could be our last day, none of us know. And the scripture says you don’t know what’s going to happen tomorrow you know, you have got no idea.

But it is still, it is still like wow, sobering when someone actually says, “Well, you have cancer.” But it caused me to really really again get into the Word in a whole new way, you know. I had this Bible app that had you know a hundred-and-something faith scriptures about healing, so I would find myself three times a day almost like breakfast, lunch, and dinner that I would just spend you know, a certain amount of time where I would out loud, declare those scriptures and just speak that over myself, just to keep my head from spiralling down a negative track.

Because I found that if I could say scripture out loud and confess the promises of God, I wouldn’t spend that time worrying about what’s going to happen to my daughters, what’s going to happen to, you know, because if you don’t take every thought captive…

Erin: Oh, I know.

Christine: Every second, you will spiral…I think the battle, more than the physical battle of cancer in my body, it’s the mind games in your head, that’s where you’ve got to win the battle.

Erin: So true. I wanted to ask you , you know, you and Nick are doing ministry, he’s pastoring a church, you’re traveling all the time, you’re sharing this message, you’re also raising two girls and not necessarily in that order of priority.

So, we have a lot of parents listening, how do you see this message of understanding what fear is and what you can do to counteract it for God’s glory, how does that translate to your approach when you’re parenting Catherine and Sophia?

Christine: Yeah, I think it’s major because there’s so much fear in the world today. I think there’s so much instability, so much chaos, world events I mean you know there’s just, there’s so much terror, there’s so much crime, there’s so much violence.

Being a parent is very challenging in the twenty first century mostly because of the internet and social media. I mean I am sure there was a lot of crime and violence and terror and natural disasters when I was growing up, but you didn’t know about it every second because there was no internet.

So, I was living in Australia, it would take a while before I knew what was happening in Northern Europe or North America, whereas nowadays you know there is a shooting in a school, within two seconds I know that it’s happening instantly on my phone.

So I think for parents, I see it as I travel and speak, I have never seen so much fear because they’re like, “What kind of world am I bringing my kids up in? What does it mean?”

And I think now more than ever it is so important, that’s why I think the message of Unexpected, you know, when I launched it yesterday, I said I think I didn’t even realize what a “now word” this would be for this generation of parents, because there is so much fear-based parenting because of what we’re seeing in the news all the time.

You send your kids off to school and your heart misses a beat because you’re just like “Okay God, please, are they going to be okay today?”

Erin: Are they coming back?

Christine: Yeah, literally. I mean you were not thinking that when I was going to school, you know. So there is a reality I think with just the redefinition of so many things, of marriage and morality in the world today. You send your kids off and you’re like, “God let them be strong in their identity in who they are in You.” Because you know they’re going to confront twenty different identities in one day with their friends at school, with the way people parent.

So, it is a different world, no matter what anyone says, you know. People go well every generation says it was different in my generation. But the fact is it is different, it is like categorically different.

So, I think we have to learn, you know the Lord said to Joshua when he was going into the Promised Land. He said only be strong and very courageous. I think we need to speak a message of strength and courage because if we crumble in fear as parents, we are not going to steward our children right.

And that’s why I think I used so many of these stories in my book to go okay, we are not denying reality because sticking your head in the sand like an ostrich is not going to help anyone; getting legalistic is not going to help anybody; sort of running for the hills and stockpiling your food and water supplies and hiding your kids for the next twenty years, that is not going to help anyone.

So does scripture speak to today? Yes. Has God anointed us to be parents today? Yes. If God chooses the times and seasons He sets us in, well He knew we would be parents in 2018, in America right now He knew how cry cray everything would be…

Erin: He chose us for this opportunity, right? Like, we were we were chosen on purpose to do this now, yeah.

Christine: That’s what I’m thinking, let’s stop and go, “Well, He didn’t make a mistake.”

Erin: No.

Christine: “He picked me so there must be a way I can do it with strength, with courage, without fear, with confidence” and that’s why I wrote Unexpected, I’m going, I’m speaking straight to that. And I want to speak the faith and strength and courage to you.

I’m kind of glad that I am in a season where I have a sixteen year old and a twelve year old, so people can’t say, “Well Chris it’s okay for you, your kids have grown up.” Or , “You don’t have kids.” I’m going, “No, no, I’m in it with you. My kids are at school right now. I’m living this and I’m still saying that you can do this with faith and not fear, I really am.”

And so I think that the only hope, to be honest, the only hope for this generation is Jesus in His word. It is so cray-cray that you just go whoa, it is spiralling out of control.

But here is my deal, and I think this is the message of Unexpected in a very very bottom simplistic way. Just because the world and your friends and everyone around you is going cray-cray, you don’t have to. And there is a way only those things that can be shaken will be shaken so that those things that cannot be shaken shall remain. Jesus is our rock. What can you expect when the unexpected happens, whether it’s a medical diagnosis, whether it’s something going crazy economically or politically or socially or morally or environmentally?

Psalm 119, in the midst of unexpected Jesus said, “When trials come”, He didn’t say “If”, He said, “When”, so we will have trials, we will have tribulation.

So you know the fact is that Jesus didn’t say “If trials come”, He said, when, when trials and tribulation come. So therefore, He knew the trials that we would be confronting and He said, “My grace is sufficient for you in it.” And I think a lot of us want to be delivered from it, but Jesus says, “No no, I’m going to take you through it.”

And I think you have experienced that, I have experienced that, whether it is a sickness, whether it is challenges with our children, societal challenges, I think we have got to look for fresh manna every day in the midst of the challenge and that is where we are going to find Jesus; His grace is sufficient. Jesus says “I will never leave you nor forsake you.”

And I think out of all of the most challenging trying situations in my life, the greatest gift is I have found God right there in the midst of it and without it I don’t think I would have known that. And so it strengthened my faith; it’s very powerful.

Erin: It’s so cool too because He is never, like, it’s a comfort to me because He is never surprised by anything that happens. Like, I can be surprised, I can be discouraged, I can, you know, hit a situation and go, “Oh my gosh that wasn’t what I expected, I’m scared I don’t know what to do.”

But God, like God sees all, He knows all, it’s all been preordained so we can rest in that life. What kind of encouragement do you think that is for people who are so shocked and scared and just like have this swirling of negativity around some of the things that do come that are unexpected, what hope do they have that God is literally never surprised.

Christine: Yeah and I think that’s the bottom line, it’s not that Jesus fell off the throne when you know, Wall Street crashed or when something happened politically or when a natural disaster. It’s not like He’s there in heaven going, “I had no idea that was going to happen.” But sometimes we act like that’s it.

And that’s what I think I said that in the book, many times unexpected to us is not unexpected to God, it’s just like, He is sovereign and He is good, what it does reveal to us though is what we think about God and I think that’s the big thing is that you go “Wow.”

Okay, if I believe that God is good, then I have to believe that even though this thing that’s happening to me is not good, God will work this thing out for my good, there is something He is trying to teach me through it, there is some way He wants me to grow, there is something He wants to make me aware of.

So it’s not that God…because I think the first thing we think when something unexpected happens we think God has forsaken and abandoned us and we think that, you know, “do you see me, God? Do you know, do you even care?” And He is going, “Yeah, I’m trying to get you to see me in the midst of this. You’re going to discover me in a way you never knew me, you’re going to discover my grace, you’re going to discover my strength, you’re going to discover intimacy with me.”

Because I think nothing throws us at the feet of Jesus like a challenge we were not expecting. I would say that’s a huge thing and out of that, you would never go. But it’s like me like you know, I would never want to be diagnosed with cancer again, but I don’t want to go back to the person I was before I was diagnosed.

Because I went on an intimacy journey with Jesus and many of the bad things that have happened to me in my life I don’t want them to happen again, but I don’t want to go back to the person I was before it happened because it drew me closer to Jesus. And you know, I think no matter what there is no easy way through sometimes, you just got to go through. But when you have discovered Jesus in the midst of that valley you go, “Oh, I would never not want to go through that valley, because I’ve become a different person.

Erin: So good, I have loved just getting a chance to connect with you and hear about your heart and just share the themes of this book, it is going to bless so many people.

We have got to wrap up though and I could literally talk to you forever. But we do, so we end each episode by asking three rapid-fire questions, I call the scoop. Are you ready?

Christine: I am ready for the scoop.

Erin: Okay. So obviously, Heroes For Her, we love real heroes for girls on this podcast, but when you were a little girl who was your hero?

Christine: So many. Okay, I did always love Wonder Woman, but in reality I loved Mother Teresa. That’s why getting the award blew me away because I have always honored and loved that woman.

Erin: Good. Second question, what is a piece of advice you’ve received that has impacted your own life in a powerful way?

Christine: Yep. Be unoffendable is the world, like don’t hold on to offence, let it go. So in the words of Taylor Swift, learn to shake it off.

Erin: I know that song. [She sings “Shake it off, shake it off.”]

Christine: That’s it [chuckles]

bThird question, if you could have a secret superpower what would it be?

Christine: Oh. Gosh, I love that…oh, yes to be able to shut my eyes and wake and just instantly be transported to the Italian Riviera of Santorini, on a whim.

Erin: Oh, that sounds amazing. I thought you were going to say like, I want to close my eyes and just wake up and feel like I got ten hours of sleep.

Christine: Oh no, I want to be sitting on a Greek island, that’s what I want to do.

Erin: That sounds good. I went to Santorini, oh my gosh was that was like thirteen years ago or so.

Christine: Did you like it?

Erin: I went to Mykonos and Santorini and I did a whole trip through Greece and it was awesome.

Christine: Yeah, it’s my favorite place in the world.

Erin: Thank you so much for being here, Christine and I just want to give everybody a chance, as we wrap up, where is the best place for people to connect with you online, find out more about the book and everything you have going on to champion the cause of women?

Christine: I think anyway you could go to christinecaine.com, @ChristineCaine on all social media, it won’t be hard to find me.

Erin: Sounds good. Christine, thank you so much again for being here, God bless you.

Christine: Thanks, Erin. Bless you.